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	<title>Comments on: Supporting FOSS on non-free platforms?</title>
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	<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/</link>
	<description>Shining a spotlight on the openSUSE Community</description>
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		<title>By: Jules</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-443</link>
		<dc:creator>Jules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-443</guid>
		<description>I completely agree!

Although cross-platform applications may stop or slow some people from switching, they also make it much easier to switch if you want to. Now there is choice!

As an IT professional, I doubt I&#039;ll ever be free of Windows so having cross-platform tools like Firefox, Thunderbird, Keepass, Truecrypt, Google Earth, OpenOffice, Komodo Edit, etc. is a real god-send.

Regards, Julian
http://linux.knightnet.org.uk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree!</p>
<p>Although cross-platform applications may stop or slow some people from switching, they also make it much easier to switch if you want to. Now there is choice!</p>
<p>As an IT professional, I doubt I&#8217;ll ever be free of Windows so having cross-platform tools like Firefox, Thunderbird, Keepass, Truecrypt, Google Earth, OpenOffice, Komodo Edit, etc. is a real god-send.</p>
<p>Regards, Julian<br />
<a href="http://linux.knightnet.org.uk" rel="nofollow">http://linux.knightnet.org.uk</a></p>
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		<title>By: Beineri</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator>Beineri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 08:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-438</guid>
		<description>Funny that you use KOffice as example and not the obvious case of Novell offering its edition of OpenOffice.org for Windows :-)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny that you use KOffice as example and not the obvious case of Novell offering its edition of OpenOffice.org for Windows <img src='http://zonker.opensuse.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Markus</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator>Markus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-437</guid>
		<description>With productivity apps it&#039;s really important to give people the choice and not force them into vendor lock-in. I used Windows in the past. Then I moved to an Apple laptop with Mac OS X. Later I got a PC and installed Linux on it and since my Mac broke, I use Linux exclusively.
All that time I used OpenOffice and moving my documents from one platform to the other was absolutely painless.
If you want people to move to Linux, fine. Make (openSUSE) Linux an OS that people want to use. Make it easier to use. Let its benefits speak for themselves.

Offering FOSS apps for multiple platforms does not only make the users&#039; life easier, it also gives the FOSS projects the potential for more developers. E.g. the music notation feature in KOffice 2 was developed under Mac OS X. With the sheer number of Windows installations there&#039;s an enormous potential for additional KOffice developers. Even if those developers never switch to Linux/*BSD/Solaris, users of free platforms benefit from their work. While the Mac community does not have that many programmers, it&#039;s a community with many artists and usability experts. This is very noticeable at instant messaging applications. IMHO Adium is the best instant messenger out there. It combines the programming experience from the Linux community (it uses Pidgin&#039;s libpurple) with the aesthetic experience from the Mac community to a polished and popular messenger. As a result, Kopete users can now enjoy the large library of GPL compatible chat styles created for Adium. It&#039;s a win-win situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With productivity apps it&#8217;s really important to give people the choice and not force them into vendor lock-in. I used Windows in the past. Then I moved to an Apple laptop with Mac OS X. Later I got a PC and installed Linux on it and since my Mac broke, I use Linux exclusively.<br />
All that time I used OpenOffice and moving my documents from one platform to the other was absolutely painless.<br />
If you want people to move to Linux, fine. Make (openSUSE) Linux an OS that people want to use. Make it easier to use. Let its benefits speak for themselves.</p>
<p>Offering FOSS apps for multiple platforms does not only make the users&#8217; life easier, it also gives the FOSS projects the potential for more developers. E.g. the music notation feature in KOffice 2 was developed under Mac OS X. With the sheer number of Windows installations there&#8217;s an enormous potential for additional KOffice developers. Even if those developers never switch to Linux/*BSD/Solaris, users of free platforms benefit from their work. While the Mac community does not have that many programmers, it&#8217;s a community with many artists and usability experts. This is very noticeable at instant messaging applications. IMHO Adium is the best instant messenger out there. It combines the programming experience from the Linux community (it uses Pidgin&#8217;s libpurple) with the aesthetic experience from the Mac community to a polished and popular messenger. As a result, Kopete users can now enjoy the large library of GPL compatible chat styles created for Adium. It&#8217;s a win-win situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-436</guid>
		<description>I think the future of the OS is quite blurred.  Aside from the cost perspective (which I&#039;m sure will change), I see no real value in the OS and the application stack (down to the OS boundary) will be the important thing.  If that&#039;s FOSS, great.  If the FOSS community is to live up to its own marketing, then let people choose, this includes the OS.  It&#039;s a religious thing I guess, you&#039;re either very Catholic or just Christened Catholic (i.e., OpenOffice on GNU/Linux vs OpenOffice on Win32/MacOSX)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the future of the OS is quite blurred.  Aside from the cost perspective (which I&#8217;m sure will change), I see no real value in the OS and the application stack (down to the OS boundary) will be the important thing.  If that&#8217;s FOSS, great.  If the FOSS community is to live up to its own marketing, then let people choose, this includes the OS.  It&#8217;s a religious thing I guess, you&#8217;re either very Catholic or just Christened Catholic (i.e., OpenOffice on GNU/Linux vs OpenOffice on Win32/MacOSX)</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-435</guid>
		<description>By switch, do you mean &quot;switch very soon after trying open source apps on my OS&quot; or &quot;switch at some point in the future, maybe sooner, maybe later&quot;?

If we are looking for people to switch to Linux very soon after they use open source apps, I think we will be disappointed and think it was a bad strategy to port those apps.

If we are willing to wait (possibly years) for people to switch to Linux after trying open source software, I do not see how the strategy would be bad.
1) They are exposed to new, free software in a comfortable (to them) environment (OSS positive)
2) The software impresses them, and they use it instead of proprietary software (OSS positive)
3) They, eventually, discover community support concepts (OSS positive)
4) They get used to good quality, free software (OSS positive)
5) Future software decisions will be OSS-aware if not OSS-biased (OSS positive)
6) Proprietary software (apps and OS) will eventually cause problems - crashes, viruses, upgrade costs, company goes out of business, etc. (proprietary negative)
7) Good experiences with OSS will help breed more OSS-friendly decisions in the future (OSS positive)

Short Version
Linux = OSS and apps = OSS. I believe the more positive experiences someone has with OSS, the more likely they are to try more OSS.
Question: Does &quot;porting&quot; Firefox to a proprietary operating system help or hurt the adoption of other OSS software?
Another question: Does &quot;porting&quot; Firefox to a proprietary operating system help or hurt the adoption of other browsers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By switch, do you mean &#8220;switch very soon after trying open source apps on my OS&#8221; or &#8220;switch at some point in the future, maybe sooner, maybe later&#8221;?</p>
<p>If we are looking for people to switch to Linux very soon after they use open source apps, I think we will be disappointed and think it was a bad strategy to port those apps.</p>
<p>If we are willing to wait (possibly years) for people to switch to Linux after trying open source software, I do not see how the strategy would be bad.<br />
1) They are exposed to new, free software in a comfortable (to them) environment (OSS positive)<br />
2) The software impresses them, and they use it instead of proprietary software (OSS positive)<br />
3) They, eventually, discover community support concepts (OSS positive)<br />
4) They get used to good quality, free software (OSS positive)<br />
5) Future software decisions will be OSS-aware if not OSS-biased (OSS positive)<br />
6) Proprietary software (apps and OS) will eventually cause problems &#8211; crashes, viruses, upgrade costs, company goes out of business, etc. (proprietary negative)<br />
7) Good experiences with OSS will help breed more OSS-friendly decisions in the future (OSS positive)</p>
<p>Short Version<br />
Linux = OSS and apps = OSS. I believe the more positive experiences someone has with OSS, the more likely they are to try more OSS.<br />
Question: Does &#8220;porting&#8221; Firefox to a proprietary operating system help or hurt the adoption of other OSS software?<br />
Another question: Does &#8220;porting&#8221; Firefox to a proprietary operating system help or hurt the adoption of other browsers?</p>
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		<title>By: Cristian</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>Cristian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-434</guid>
		<description>Why be so rigid of them switching to Linux?

In the worst case, you can see their Windows OS as just the *kernel*, and an ugly desktop, Explorer. But the rest of the stuff could be open source. 

If you&#039;d really want, there could even be a nice open source desktop environment on it, that replaces explorer completely. ... and maybe some decent services which implement posixs (sorry cygwin... you just don&#039;t do it.)

In this way, to the user would interface with only open source products. This could really mean that in the future, they might not care about their kernel too much. So, they could switch to linux.

If we keep on evangelizing open software, maybe we should also try to remain open.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why be so rigid of them switching to Linux?</p>
<p>In the worst case, you can see their Windows OS as just the *kernel*, and an ugly desktop, Explorer. But the rest of the stuff could be open source. </p>
<p>If you&#8217;d really want, there could even be a nice open source desktop environment on it, that replaces explorer completely. &#8230; and maybe some decent services which implement posixs (sorry cygwin&#8230; you just don&#8217;t do it.)</p>
<p>In this way, to the user would interface with only open source products. This could really mean that in the future, they might not care about their kernel too much. So, they could switch to linux.</p>
<p>If we keep on evangelizing open software, maybe we should also try to remain open.</p>
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		<title>By: Athrun</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-433</link>
		<dc:creator>Athrun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-433</guid>
		<description>&lt;q cite=&quot;Zonker&quot;&gt;I would agree, but some folks write software in order to promote FOSS — and it’s a concern if the software runs on proprietary platforms that users will stop there.&lt;/q&gt;

Yet they don&#039;t seem to be aware that restricting the target user base is potentially _damaging_ the whole FOSS ecosystem.
We (FOSS people) say that we want to promote freedom but it seems we are always trying hard to devise ways to force users to switch to what we consider the best platform.
It&#039;s not a real &quot;vendor lock-in&quot; since it&#039;s free software, open standards and all that, but the approach is not so different: &quot;In order to use my software, use my platform&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><q cite="Zonker">I would agree, but some folks write software in order to promote FOSS — and it’s a concern if the software runs on proprietary platforms that users will stop there.</q></p>
<p>Yet they don&#8217;t seem to be aware that restricting the target user base is potentially _damaging_ the whole FOSS ecosystem.<br />
We (FOSS people) say that we want to promote freedom but it seems we are always trying hard to devise ways to force users to switch to what we consider the best platform.<br />
It&#8217;s not a real &#8220;vendor lock-in&#8221; since it&#8217;s free software, open standards and all that, but the approach is not so different: &#8220;In order to use my software, use my platform&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonker</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-431</guid>
		<description>Well, having as many people as possible switch to Linux is *my* goal... :-) And I do believe that there&#039;s a lot of overlap between KDE developers and Linux enthusiasts, but you&#039;re right to point out that many software developers aren&#039;t interested in Linux as an end goal. 

But, for those who do want to get Linux to switch - what&#039;s the right answer? 

Obviously, if the goal is just &quot;get more users,&quot; then it makes *perfect* sense to port to Windows and Mac OS X and any major platform with a lot of users. If the goal is &quot;get more LINUX users,&quot; well, then it&#039;s a matter of whether FOSS on Windows / Mac will ultimately support that, or go the other way.

&lt;i&gt;Each time I see OSS people saying that “porting a FOSS application to proprietary platform X or Y is not a good idea”, I wonder what’s the point of making great software if you don’t want anyone to actually be able to use it.&lt;/i&gt;

I would agree, but some folks write software in order to promote FOSS -- and it&#039;s a concern if the software runs on proprietary platforms that users will stop there. 

Thanks for the perspective!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, having as many people as possible switch to Linux is *my* goal&#8230; <img src='http://zonker.opensuse.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  And I do believe that there&#8217;s a lot of overlap between KDE developers and Linux enthusiasts, but you&#8217;re right to point out that many software developers aren&#8217;t interested in Linux as an end goal. </p>
<p>But, for those who do want to get Linux to switch &#8211; what&#8217;s the right answer? </p>
<p>Obviously, if the goal is just &#8220;get more users,&#8221; then it makes *perfect* sense to port to Windows and Mac OS X and any major platform with a lot of users. If the goal is &#8220;get more LINUX users,&#8221; well, then it&#8217;s a matter of whether FOSS on Windows / Mac will ultimately support that, or go the other way.</p>
<p><i>Each time I see OSS people saying that “porting a FOSS application to proprietary platform X or Y is not a good idea”, I wonder what’s the point of making great software if you don’t want anyone to actually be able to use it.</i></p>
<p>I would agree, but some folks write software in order to promote FOSS &#8212; and it&#8217;s a concern if the software runs on proprietary platforms that users will stop there. </p>
<p>Thanks for the perspective!</p>
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		<title>By: Athrun</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>Athrun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-430</guid>
		<description>You seem to consider that making people switch to Linux is the ultimate goal. Yes, Linux a nice OS but it won&#039;t bring peace and happiness to the world, you know...
Should people have to switch OS just to use some software?

What really matters is bringing more great software to people. The OS really _doesn&#039;t_ matter.
And, of course, for software developers, reaching platforms besides Linux means getting a _whole_ lot more users.  And a bigger community means more bugs reports and (hopefully) more contributors :)

Each time I see OSS people saying that &quot;porting a FOSS application to proprietary platform X or Y is not a good idea&quot;, I wonder what&#039;s the point of making great software if you don&#039;t want anyone to actually be able to use it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to consider that making people switch to Linux is the ultimate goal. Yes, Linux a nice OS but it won&#8217;t bring peace and happiness to the world, you know&#8230;<br />
Should people have to switch OS just to use some software?</p>
<p>What really matters is bringing more great software to people. The OS really _doesn&#8217;t_ matter.<br />
And, of course, for software developers, reaching platforms besides Linux means getting a _whole_ lot more users.  And a bigger community means more bugs reports and (hopefully) more contributors <img src='http://zonker.opensuse.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Each time I see OSS people saying that &#8220;porting a FOSS application to proprietary platform X or Y is not a good idea&#8221;, I wonder what&#8217;s the point of making great software if you don&#8217;t want anyone to actually be able to use it.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonker</title>
		<link>http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/07/17/supporting-foss-on-non-free-platforms/comment-page-1/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zonker.opensuse.org/?p=172#comment-429</guid>
		<description>True. That&#039;s a +1 for FOSS on Windows and Mac OS X...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True. That&#8217;s a +1 for FOSS on Windows and Mac OS X&#8230;</p>
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