Comments on: Bringing Microsoft to the table: Can MS become an open source contributor? http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/ Zonker's Insights Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:20:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: guest http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-293 guest Sat, 17 May 2008 23:51:04 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-293 Thanks for the opinion, and I agree with the sentiment — but it could have been expressed without the vulgarity. I hope you’ll continue to read and contribute to my blog without feeling the need to offend some of the other readers. Thanks for the opinion, and I agree with the sentiment — but it could have been expressed without the vulgarity. I hope you’ll continue to read and contribute to my blog without feeling the need to offend some of the other readers.

]]> By: Wookey http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-277 Wookey Mon, 12 May 2008 12:29:39 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-277 Well, it depends entirely on the licence the code is contributed under. Many Free Software licences say nothing significant about patents so whilst the copyright status of the code is clear it can still be covered by a patent owned by the contributor, or a third party. Anyone working with Microsoft (or any company which has software patents) should make sure that any code they contribute is under a licence which makes clear that that patent will not be asserted against _any_ use of said code. (In fact I'm not sure a copyright licence can ever give such a strong guarantee, but it should do its best). Microsoft's record to date does not inspire blind trust on such matters (although in fact they have not (yet?) gone round suing Free Software writers over patents). Well, it depends entirely on the licence the code is contributed under. Many Free Software licences say nothing significant about patents so whilst the copyright status of the code is clear it can still be covered by a patent owned by the contributor, or a third party.

Anyone working with Microsoft (or any company which has software patents) should make sure that any code they contribute is under a licence which makes clear that that patent will not be asserted against _any_ use of said code. (In fact I’m not sure a copyright licence can ever give such a strong guarantee, but it should do its best).

Microsoft’s record to date does not inspire blind trust on such matters (although in fact they have not (yet?) gone round suing Free Software writers over patents).

]]> By: Marcus Moeller http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-276 Marcus Moeller Sun, 11 May 2008 22:19:46 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-276 I personally find it really strange that pro-microsoft lobbyists try to post comments on that article to make it look like this decision is welcome in the Community. It's also strange that a 'Linux Company' is advertising together with Microsoft to promote 'interportability' (lately seen on Heise.de) Microsoft is already able to adopt well known and already accepted formats like ODF e.g. but they don't. And they know why. But OpenSource projects should include technically poor semi-open 'standards' like OpenXML. It's time to change the role. Maybe we are the Scorptions (but friendly ones ;) Best Regards Marcus I personally find it really strange that pro-microsoft lobbyists try to post comments on that article to make it look like this decision is welcome in the Community. It’s also strange that a ‘Linux Company’ is advertising together with Microsoft to promote ‘interportability’ (lately seen on Heise.de)

Microsoft is already able to adopt well known and already accepted formats like ODF e.g. but they don’t. And they know why. But OpenSource projects should include technically poor semi-open ’standards’ like OpenXML.

It’s time to change the role. Maybe we are the Scorptions (but friendly ones ;)

Best Regards
Marcus

]]> By: Zonker http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-246 Zonker Mon, 05 May 2008 17:20:16 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-246 I seriously doubt that Microsoft is going to try to game the system in that way -- I am not a lawyer, but I can't imagine MS having a case with "well, we contributed the code, but now we're going to claim that it infringes on our patents, even though we contributed it in the first place." I appreciate the concern, but I don't think that's a reasonable scenario. I seriously doubt that Microsoft is going to try to game the system in that way — I am not a lawyer, but I can’t imagine MS having a case with “well, we contributed the code, but now we’re going to claim that it infringes on our patents, even though we contributed it in the first place.”

I appreciate the concern, but I don’t think that’s a reasonable scenario.

]]> By: Nathan http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-245 Nathan Fri, 02 May 2008 19:09:11 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-245 This is awesome news! This could be an historic moment (in a positive way). If Microsoft cannot resist adjusting to FOSS, who else can resist adjusting to FOSS? I am glad Novell has listened to its customers rather than its competitors or some open source demagogues who do not contribute to Novell. As a result, we have had many positives. To name a few: better inter operation with Microsoft products (ODF/OOXML, Samba/Active Directory, virtualization, etc.) several business desktops/laptops preloaded with Linux much Novell code open sourced open source developers paid by Novell a great openSUSE product that will jump several notches in its next release Once again, great news! Thank you, Novell This is awesome news! This could be an historic moment (in a positive way). If Microsoft cannot resist adjusting to FOSS, who else can resist adjusting to FOSS?

I am glad Novell has listened to its customers rather than its competitors or some open source demagogues who do not contribute to Novell. As a result, we have had many positives. To name a few:

better inter operation with Microsoft products (ODF/OOXML, Samba/Active Directory, virtualization, etc.)
several business desktops/laptops preloaded with Linux
much Novell code open sourced
open source developers paid by Novell
a great openSUSE product that will jump several notches in its next release

Once again, great news! Thank you, Novell

]]> By: Willem Voogd http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-243 Willem Voogd Fri, 02 May 2008 16:06:38 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-243 What's to lose? How about infecting open source projects with patented code. Only to say so when it's spread among many other projects or other projects depending on the 'infected' project. Microsoft is getting ready for a patent based FUD campaign and what better prove to have that a project is infringing your patent then putting the infringing code in yourself. That way you can sue the users who got the software through other ways then your approved channels (like Novell?) think about it... triple E strategy, they are at the first E now... W. What’s to lose?

How about infecting open source projects with patented code. Only to say so when it’s spread among many other projects or other projects depending on the ‘infected’ project. Microsoft is getting ready for a patent based FUD campaign and what better prove to have that a project is infringing your patent then putting the infringing code in yourself. That way you can sue the users who got the software through other ways then your approved channels (like Novell?)

think about it… triple E strategy, they are at the first E now…

W.

]]> By: Zonker http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-242 Zonker Fri, 02 May 2008 02:26:17 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-242 Thanks for the opinion, and I agree with the sentiment -- but it could have been expressed without the vulgarity. I hope you'll continue to read and contribute to my blog without feeling the need to offend some of the other readers. Thanks for the opinion, and I agree with the sentiment — but it could have been expressed without the vulgarity. I hope you’ll continue to read and contribute to my blog without feeling the need to offend some of the other readers.

]]> By: Zonker http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-241 Zonker Fri, 02 May 2008 02:24:57 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-241 You know, I've always enjoyed that fable, and I think it provides a valuable lesson -- don't put yourself in a position to be fatally stung by someone untrustworthy. However, in this case, what could Microsoft do that would be vastly harmful? I think the worst-case scenario would be that Microsoft would fail to contribute, and they weren't contributing before, so... what's to lose? On the other hand -- what's to gain? Do I blindly trust Microsoft? Of course not! However, remembering the fact that Microsoft is a company made up of individuals who might be persuaded that open source contributions are in their best interest (and let's be clear -- most corporate participants in open source communities are doing so because of pragmatic considerations) I think it's worth working with them and providing that learning experience. You know, I’ve always enjoyed that fable, and I think it provides a valuable lesson — don’t put yourself in a position to be fatally stung by someone untrustworthy. However, in this case, what could Microsoft do that would be vastly harmful? I think the worst-case scenario would be that Microsoft would fail to contribute, and they weren’t contributing before, so… what’s to lose?

On the other hand — what’s to gain?

Do I blindly trust Microsoft? Of course not! However, remembering the fact that Microsoft is a company made up of individuals who might be persuaded that open source contributions are in their best interest (and let’s be clear — most corporate participants in open source communities are doing so because of pragmatic considerations) I think it’s worth working with them and providing that learning experience.

]]> By: Zeke123 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-240 Zeke123 Fri, 02 May 2008 01:16:03 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-240 Blah, blah, blah... > Microsoft is going to be contributing to several open source projects Blah, blah, blah.... Wake me up when they do contribute because its nothing more than the sound Charlie Brown's teacher makes. I want to see one open source project they participate in and none of these bastard licenses the OSI let them have. Show me a project where they will contribute just like IBM, Intel, Sun, Hewlett-Packard, AMD, Fujitsu, and Oracle and others do and Ill change my tune. Until then, well, you know... Btw, Im old enough to remember when IBM was the evil empire so I have no problems seeing Microsoft contribute to a GPLed project but considering the rhetoric that comes from the head of Microsoft, I have heard or seen anythting yet. And dont tell me that what Ballmer says doesnt matter. He is still the head of the company and whether some middle management geek wants to turn to open source means nothing. You dont ask what the US foreign policy is from the secretary of the assistant of the secretaty of agriculture. So until the guy who pays the bills says otherwise, nothing has changed. Until I see one line of GPLed code that Microsoft has contributed, your words have no weight whatsoever. And if you are honest, you know that there is no reason to believe anything until we see proof. Or until monkeyboy says otherwise and nothing he has said in the last year proves the contrary. Of course, Im a Non-Compensated Individual Hobbyist Developer, which means Zonker and his group give a flying ..... about what I think. Then again, I dont react to blackmail and extortion as well as Novell and Joe do. "Plutôt mourir debout que vivre à genoux" c'est pour le monde avec des couilles et des convictions profondes pas les carrieristes. Blah, blah, blah…
> Microsoft is going to be contributing to several open source projects

Blah, blah, blah….

Wake me up when they do contribute because its nothing more than the sound Charlie Brown’s teacher makes.
I want to see one open source project they participate in and none of these bastard licenses the OSI let them have.
Show me a project where they will contribute just like IBM, Intel, Sun, Hewlett-Packard, AMD, Fujitsu, and Oracle and others do and Ill change my tune.
Until then, well, you know…

Btw, Im old enough to remember when IBM was the evil empire so I have no problems seeing Microsoft contribute to a GPLed project but considering the rhetoric that comes from the head of Microsoft, I have heard or seen anythting yet.
And dont tell me that what Ballmer says doesnt matter. He is still the head of the company and whether some middle management geek wants to turn to open source means nothing. You dont ask what the US foreign policy is from the secretary of the assistant of the secretaty of agriculture.
So until the guy who pays the bills says otherwise, nothing has changed.
Until I see one line of GPLed code that Microsoft has contributed, your words have no weight whatsoever.
And if you are honest, you know that there is no reason to believe anything until we see proof.
Or until monkeyboy says otherwise and nothing he has said in the last year proves the contrary.

Of course, Im a Non-Compensated Individual Hobbyist Developer, which means Zonker and his group give a flying ….. about what I think.

Then again, I dont react to blackmail and extortion as well as Novell and Joe do.

“Plutôt mourir debout que vivre à genoux” c’est pour le monde avec des couilles et des convictions profondes pas les carrieristes.

]]> By: R. Alvez http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-239 R. Alvez Thu, 01 May 2008 19:12:39 +0000 http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/04/30/bringing-microsoft-to-the-table-can-ms-become-an-open-source-contributor/#comment-239 @HardyUser, Microsoft IS a convicted monopolist (and more than once at that), so I do not think I'm too off the mark to say they are untrustworthy. The last time I checked the government of the United States and Europe had the same opinion. Sure, that does not make me right but I believe that Microsoft must do far better efforts to show it has learnt from the past and is willing to amend its ways. The dishonorable behavior displayed by Microsoft handling the ISO certification process of OOXML does not help my view, or that of most people in the FOSS community for that matter. I respect your point of view but respectfully disagree with it as both examples I have used here are *very* recent. @ anon, People that have an intelligent opinion do not need to resort to insults or swearing so I'm disregarding your post as that of a Microsoft fun boy or just an immature teenager, either way you may want to apply your counseling to yourself: "...grew the hell up". ;-) R. @HardyUser,

Microsoft IS a convicted monopolist (and more than once at that), so I do not think I’m too off the mark to say they are untrustworthy. The last time I checked the government of the United States and Europe had the same opinion. Sure, that does not make me right but I believe that Microsoft must do far better efforts to show it has learnt from the past and is willing to amend its ways. The dishonorable behavior displayed by Microsoft handling the ISO certification process of OOXML does not help my view, or that of most people in the FOSS community for that matter. I respect your point of view but respectfully disagree with it as both examples I have used here are *very* recent.

@ anon,

People that have an intelligent opinion do not need to resort to insults or swearing so I’m disregarding your post as that of a Microsoft fun boy or just an immature teenager, either way you may want to apply your counseling to yourself: “…grew the hell up”. ;-)

R.

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